Curse

Riceboi · Jun 22, 2008, 09:35 AM // 09:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by N1ghtstalker

and that's a downside for people so the chaos planes will be farmed less and ectos will stay the original price

True I'm too lazy to do that lol. Hell I'm even too lazy to use the perma sf right now. =)

kostolomac · Jun 22, 2008, 09:38 AM // 09:38

Yeah nerf SF , but then nerf every build that can farm ectos so the only way to get them would be from UW clears. Unless they do that they shouldn't nerf SF or UW.

Zamochit · Jun 22, 2008, 09:40 AM // 09:40

Leave Sf alone - Leave plains alone - Move glyph of swiftness to the energy storage line with 0 spells effected at 0 energy storage, as Fenix has already suggested.

Fay Vert · Jun 22, 2008, 10:54 AM // 10:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by -rightuos-

Ectos are not gold, never have been.

Sorry but Ectos are gold, always have been.

Items in GW now fall into 3 basic categories:

1) Worthless: the vast majority of anything these days is totally worthless merchant fodder.
2) Modest value: A number of nice skin/functional greens etc can have a value of a few K to a few 10s of K, not too many of these things around but enough. This is where most trade is done, what you see in trade towns.
3) High end items, these are the super rare skins, tonics and minipets. They go for >100K and without ectos there is no suitable alternative.

The current gold economy only supports trade for category 2 items. Ectos have been a very important currancy for 3 years. Perma is now undermining that.

N1ghtstalker · Jun 22, 2008, 10:59 AM // 10:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riceboi

True I'm too lazy to do that lol. Hell I'm even too lazy to use the perma sf right now. =)

² that
i hate grinding and do repetetive stuff T_T
and i thought online gaming would always offer different stuff like a match of CSS T_T
guess not T_T

Avarre · Jun 22, 2008, 11:47 AM // 11:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fay Vert

The current gold economy only supports trade for category 2 items. Ectos have been a very important currancy for 3 years. Perma is now undermining that.

They were only important because the community chose them. There are other things that can be used as proxy currencies.

Oznog · Jun 22, 2008, 12:44 PM // 12:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by kostolomac

Yeah nerf SF , but then nerf every build that can farm ectos so the only way to get them would be from UW clears. Unless they do that they shouldn't nerf SF or UW.

QFT. You that are in favor of nerfing SF/plains have to also support nerfing the other popular ecto farming builds, right? 55/600 duo, trapping, VwK, terra tanks. All can farm ectos with varying degrees of success. They all have to go, right?

Or is it just the SF builds that have you all in a twist? If so, why? Nerf em all or nerf nothing.

I say leave it alone. Your precious ecto stashes won't lose all of their value, but now, with the advent of the relatively easy perma SF farm, a few more people will be able to afford some high end weapons and armor. So what. The argument that the SF farm will ruin the economy is a fallacy. The so-called economy has been in shambles forever. PvE balance? Since when does fighting computer generated monsters require balance?

Reading all of the anti-sf threads, the question I keep asking myself is, what is the true motivation of those opposed to sf? The maintaining of personal wealth is my guess...

Oz

Abbess · Jun 22, 2008, 01:24 PM // 13:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fay Vert

Sorry but Ectos are gold, always have been.

Items in GW now fall into 3 basic categories:

1) Worthless: the vast majority of anything these days is totally worthless merchant fodder.
2) Modest value: A number of nice skin/functional greens etc can have a value of a few K to a few 10s of K, not too many of these things around but enough. This is where most trade is done, what you see in trade towns.
3) High end items, these are the super rare skins, tonics and minipets. They go for >100K and without ectos there is no suitable alternative.

The current gold economy only supports trade for category 2 items. Ectos have been a very important currancy for 3 years. Perma is now undermining that.

No. I just have to stop you there. Ectos are not in fact gold. As someone stated earlier in the thread, there is no law that Ecto is a currency. In fact, there is really no reason it should be. If you think the economy will fall without Ecto, You obviously are not thinking clearly. If Ecto "fails" (which i have already refuted earlier as a possibility in this thread), there are still things like Zkeys that will hold a 5-6k value in trades.

Anet will most likely not nerf this run. People complain about ursan and has anything happened there? No. Seriously, Get over yourselves and stop complaining about Chaos plains and SF.

Selket · Jun 22, 2008, 01:24 PM // 13:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark Paladin X

I'm strongly against duo builds when it comes to farming because when one player gets a drop like an ecto, the other player may result in a rage leave/quit. And nerfing SF like ends after X amount of spells/attacks would really piss people off.

I'm strongly against people who have no grasp of how2play or real understanding of the economy.

Sorry.

Abbess · Jun 22, 2008, 01:57 PM // 13:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Selket

I'm strongly against people who have no grasp of how2play or real understanding of the economy.

Sorry.

Oh so the people who started this topic!

Productivity · Jun 22, 2008, 02:04 PM // 14:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oznog

Reading all of the anti-sf threads, the question I keep asking myself is, what is the true motivation of those opposed to sf? The maintaining of personal wealth is my guess...

I want to see SF nerfed because it is completely destroying what is left of the Guild Wars economy. My 'ecto stash' consists of 12 ectos. I honestly couldn't care about the devaluation of them in terms of my personal wealth effect.

So what's wrong with everything becoming cheap? Well nothing in itself. However, if that happens, you no longer have an economy. An economy revolves around wealth, ability to produce and rarity and all three are linked in together. The SF update has taken these significantly out of line and will leave them permanently that way if nothing is done about it. Then you have a system where everyone has everything and no item means anything in terms of wealth. Sound good to you? Maybe it does, but to me, it looks like you may as well put a 'J menu' in for PVE with all skins unlocked.

Personally I'd prefer to play a game with a functioning economy, where different items mean something and take some level of commitment (be it skill or time) to acquire. As it is, you're just playing Guild Wars with an all items cheat mode on if SF is left to continue on (which isn't all that different from the way the game design is heading as ursan/consumables may as well be a god mode cheat).

Edit: The reason why I support nerfing this run is that it is significantly more effective than any other solo/duo run in terms of producing ectos. If it were to be nerfed to reduce the ecto production rate in line with that of a solo smite run, there would be no issues (except in that this punishes normal groups doing the chaos plains for no other reason than an un-necessary buff).

Abbess · Jun 22, 2008, 02:18 PM // 14:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Productivity

I want to see SF nerfed because it is completely destroying what is left of the Guild Wars economy. My 'ecto stash' consists of 12 ectos. I honestly couldn't care about the devaluation of them in terms of my personal wealth effect.

So what's wrong with everything becoming cheap? Well nothing in itself. However, if that happens, you no longer have an economy. An economy revolves around wealth, ability to produce and rarity and all three are linked in together. The SF update has taken these significantly out of line and will leave them permanently that way if nothing is done about it. Then you have a system where everyone has everything and no item means anything in terms of wealth. Sound good to you? Maybe it does, but to me, it looks like you may as well put a 'J menu' in for PVE with all skins unlocked.

Personally I'd prefer to play a game with a functioning economy, where different items mean something and take some level of commitment (be it skill or time) to acquire. As it is, you're just playing Guild Wars with an all items cheat mode on if SF is left to continue on (which isn't all that different from the way the game design is heading as ursan/consumables may as well be a god mode cheat).

Last time i checked, an eternal blade will still cost 1,000,000,000,000,,000000000000000000000000000000k without ectos. Ob edges will still be 300k. So not everyone will have everything. Things become cheap if there are too many of them. So unless ectos grow into rare items if you plant them in your Guild Hall garden, rare drop rates will still preserve high items value. There are substitues to Ecto as an exchange rate so its not like trades are bound to ecto as a currency. Next, a "fuctioning economy" in your definition must be fairly perverted. If anything, this ecto influx will stimulate purchases elsewhere and introduce more money into the hands of players. Want proof that the economy is ok? Shards have risen nearly 2k recently.

Kinn · Jun 22, 2008, 02:22 PM // 14:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

Because being indefinitely invincible should not be allowed in any online game.

But this is the thing - you're not invincible with shadow form and there are lots of ways of being damaged or energy-denied - for example: touch skills, untargetted AoE, shouts, nature rituals, traps, knockdown...(I'm sure there's more ways but these are just off the top of my head)

the SF farming build can only be used in the specific places where you can avoid these counters. Of these, it seems the only one that people are upset about is the Chaos Plains ecto farm.

Productivity · Jun 22, 2008, 02:24 PM // 14:24

Shards have risen only because they are complimentary goods with ectos.

Sure, there are other things in the game that are high end. But everytime you take something from the high end and drop it into the mid-range category, you're reducing the depth of the economy. Arbitarily doing this for no reason (SF buff) is just stupid.

Avarre · Jun 22, 2008, 02:27 PM // 14:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kinn

But this is the thing - you're not invincible with shadow form and there are lots of ways of being damaged or energy-denied - for example: touch skills, untargetted AoE, shouts, nature rituals, traps, knockdown...(I'm sure there's more ways but these are just off the top of my head)

the SF farming build can only be used in the specific places where you can avoid these counters. Of these, it seems the only one that people are upset about is the Chaos Plains ecto farm.

If you honestly believe that being only able to become permanently invulnerable in the majority of areas instead of all areas is a balancing factor, I have to ask you: is it difficult to remember to breathe?

Abbess · Jun 22, 2008, 02:32 PM // 14:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Productivity

Shards have risen only because they are complimentary goods with ectos.

Sure, there are other things in the game that are high end. But everytime you take something from the high end and drop it into the mid-range category, you're reducing the depth of the economy. Arbitarily doing this for no reason (SF buff) is just stupid.

Ecto isn't a high end item. Its a crafting material. If anything, it is better we are weening the economy off ecto reliance. Guess what? There are multiple subsitutes to ecto that hold the SAME value. With so many substitutes, I think we hardly have to worry about the "depth" of the GW economy.

Kinn · Jun 22, 2008, 02:33 PM // 14:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

If you honestly believe that being only able to become permanently invulnerable in the majority of areas instead of all areas is a balancing factor, I have to ask you: is it difficult to remember to breathe?

I'm just saying there are counters, Einstein.

Oh yes, and that no-one really gives a shit here about anything else but the ecto farm efficiency

Why don't you save your sarcastic bullshit for the next time you decide to write a smarmy 20,000 word "open letter" to a games company that's "let you down".

Abbess · Jun 22, 2008, 02:35 PM // 14:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

If you honestly believe that being only able to become permanently invulnerable in the majority of areas instead of all areas is a balancing factor, I have to ask you: is it difficult to remember to breathe?

I think Kinn had a valid point. You can't use the SF build in nearly as many areas as you can't 600. Or can't 55. or Can't VwK. Etc, etc. It is a balancing factor whether you choose to believe it or not. So i have to ask you: is it difficult to remember to breathe?

Productivity · Jun 22, 2008, 02:37 PM // 14:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abbess

Ecto isn't a high end item. Its a crafting material. If anything, it is better we are weening the economy off ecto reliance. Guess what? There are multiple subsitutes to ecto that hold the SAME value. With so many substitutes, I think we hardly have to worry about the "depth" of the GW economy.

Ecto (along with shards) directly leads to high end items (FOW armour). The fact that they are not the end good is irrelevant. The price of ectos (along with shards) is the main driver for the price of that high end item and continued devaluation due to SF farming will reduce that item to mid-range if it isn't there allready.

Bryant Again · Jun 22, 2008, 02:41 PM // 14:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abbess

I think Kinn had a valid point. You can't use the SF build in nearly as many areas as you can't 600. Or can't 55. or Can't VwK. Etc, etc. It is a balancing factor whether you choose to believe it or not. So i have to ask you: is it difficult to remember to breathe?

"God Mode: Not available in every area." Still doesn't excuse it.